Punching the Sky with Armored Saint and Fates Warning Bassist Joey Vera
Armored Saint has been breaking necks in the heavy metal scene since 1982 and this year they released their eighth album- Punching the Sky - on October 23. Punching the Sky is a reminder that the Saint continues to wave the flag of classic metal and immediately became one of my favorite albums of 2020. I had to reach out to bassist and songwriter Joey Vera to ask about the process of writing the album, how he finds his tone, and how he manages to balance the heavy metal of Armored Saint with the prog of his other main band- Fates Warning who also just released an album- Long Day Good Night - on November 6.
image credit- https://www.instagram.com/p/B0R05KjHjoK/
Doug Robertson- Let’s start with gear. What are your go-to basses? And what is it about those basses that turns you on? What do you play through?
Joey Vera- I’m using ESP basses these days. When I came on board they had just released a new model called the Vintage V4 and it was modeled very much like a pre-CBS Fender P-Bass. I have two of them. Up until then I played my ‘72 Fender P-Bass but I decided to retire it from travelling. The V4 took it’s place. The ESP basses have great necks and that warm sound I’m used to. They since stopped production on the V4 but now they’ve reissued their 87 Surveyors which are a mix of a P-Bass but with a slightly smaller neck. It plays great also. So, when I’m recording I go to the V4’s or my ’72 Fender or my ESP 5 string custom shop. On tour I play a mix of the V4’s , the 5 string or I have several ESP LTD’s. Live I play through Tech 21 sans amps, The VT Bass DI is my preamp and the power amp is Hartke LH1000, through Hartke Hydrive 8x10 cabinets. In studio I’m mostly only going DI with various versions of Tech 21 sans amps.
DR- What was your journey to the bass and to metal?
JV- I started out on guitar at 13. By the time I was 15 my friends and I were starting a band. It happened to involve [ed. note- founding Armored Saint members] John Bush, Gonzo and Phil Sandoval. This was 1978, I was 15. We needed a bass player. Six months prior, John Bush thought he wanted to be a singer/bassist so his mom bought him a 1972 Fender P-Bass. He played it for a week, then it ended up in its case under his bed for six months. Someone suggested I play his bass since we couldn’t find a bassist so I did and fell in love with it immediately. A couple of months later I bought the bass from John’s mom for $300 – this Bass is the same bass I used in all of the Armored Saint records and tours until I retired it in 2013. I was into Beatles and Earth, Wind and Fire among others growing up in the early 70’s. But by the time I got to Junior High School, I got into Hard Rock. Kiss, Aerosmith, Ted Nugent, Sabbath, Zeppelin, Deep Purple, Van Halen, Thin Lizzy, Queen. Of course that all led to Priest, Scorpions, UFO and ultimately the New Wave of British Heavy Metal.
DR- I see that you are an EMG pick-up artist. What EMGs do you use and what is it about those that pulled you to them?
JV- Lately I’ve been using the EMGX series. But I started using the OG versions way back in the late ‘80’s. I think what drew me to them was that active pickups were relatively new to me then, and I loved the loud output. I felt like the pickups let the colors of the wood come through without much coloration from the passive electronics.
DR- The new Armored Saint album Punching the Sky is incredible. As the main songwriter, and seeing as how we are The Bass Channel, do you write with a bass in your hand? Are those the lines that come to you first? What is your process?
JV- I very rarely write on the bass. I’m still a pretty decent guitar player so I write everything on guitar or piano. Generally the riffs come first, then I immediately jump into arranging. For the most part, songs come very quickly for me. I sometimes say that the song writes itself, I just have to guide it. I make very elaborate demos of the songs and I play everything. I program drums and play all instruments including mock leads. The songs are super produced with tons of overdubs. I do this so I can get a better handle on what I think the end result should sound like. Then I hand it off to John and he writes lyrics and comes up with melodies. Then he comes to my home studio and we continue to build on my ideas until we’re both satisfied.
DR- How on Earth does John Bush still sound so good?
JV- He’s been taking very good care of his voice for the past 15 years or so. He has a pretty strict regimen he does when he’s working. It’s paid off I’d say.
DR- I read that you are predominantly a fingerstyle player, but on a recent Loudwire video you said that you recorded the new album with a pick. “Whatever the song wants, the song gets,” was what you said. As a player with so much experience, is there a way for you to define how a song tells you “I’m a pick/fingerstyle song”? And will you play them that way live or will you play them fingerstyle?
JV- I only used a pick on maybe 3 songs on Punching the Sky. I let the song dictate what it needs. If the part reminds me of Adam Clayton, I use a pick. If it reminds me of Phil Lynott, I use a pick. Like that. If the part doesn’t draw attention to anything particular then I make the call then. For the most part though I feel much more comfortable playing with some funky attributes in my playing. So the fingers get the most action. When I play live I’ll just keep with fingers unless it’s something very specific. The recording part is different.
DR- The bass cuts through the mix beautifully in Punching the Sky. Is the secret to not being buried in the mix, as bass often is in heavy bands, being the main songwriter of the band?
JV- Ha, maybe. No, I really think that for the most part my bass parts are an important element for the groove of the songs. I play a lot with the kick drum so that’s one way I get to be in my own spot away from those noisy guitars. The hard part is when you’re fighting with the guitar parts. But again, it’s the nuances that help me stick out. EQ is another thing too. I record four bass tracks all direct. One is an uncolored DI, then a colored DI such as the Tech 21 Bass Driver, the Tech 21 VT Bass Pre and lately a Darkglass x7 which is nasty and distorted. In the end, I leave it up to mixer Jay Ruston to decide what he feels best suits the song. (Jay is also a bass player!)
DR- Personally, the punch and groove you have on “Do Wrong to None” makes me want to pick up my bass and learn to play it. Is there a song on the album that really gets you excited to play it?
JV- “Lone Wolf” is one. I really lean towards the funky stuff and this tune has a great bunch of different grooves that are fun to play.
DR- I don’t want to focus on Armored Saint, because your other band, Fates Warning, also just released an album called Long Day Good Night. Armored Saint and Fates Warning are different kinds of metal bands. Do you change your tone or set up depending on the band?
JV- For sure. The hyper distorted track doesn’t fit well with what Fates does. But actually, I did also submit a Darkglass X7 track, it just wasn’t as dirty as the Saint track was. But another example is that for this Fates record in particular, Jim Matheos asked me for a more mid range sound rather than the thick, clanky and semi distorted sound I’d been using on the last three or so Fates records. So I completely rolled off the neck P pickups and only used the bridge Jazz pickup. I added some low end on the pre amp though. Also, I ended up using a Tech 21 RBI in place of the VT Bass Pre. The sound is much less low end thump but way more low/mid range in your face. It pokes through the mix quite nice on Long Day Good Night.
DR- When you’re writing parts for AS or FW how much do you switch your mentality? “This is a Saint song, let’s put on my headbanger hat. This is a Fates song, let’s put on my prog hat.” Or does that happen naturally because of the bands?
JV- I don’t look at it that way. It’s more about “What does this song want?” Some Fates songs are quite aggressive and some Saint songs are quite subdued or “intricate” and vice versa. So I’m just the bass player and my job is to make the song groove with whichever hat I’m wearing.
DR- How much of the technical do you think about? Do you spend a lot of time on technique? What do you practice when you sit down with a bass and you’re not touring or writing?
JV- I don’t think much about it. I’m pretty well set in my ways at this point. I’m sometimes up for learning something new but I don’t practice much at all. I don’t run exercises at all. I never really did. There was a time when of course you learn and practice scales and all that. But I was not one to spend hours doing it. But now, if something is giving me trouble, then yes. I will spend time working it out. But I don’t ever think about practicing “technique”. I don’t mean to sound arrogant, but at this point I have settled into what is “MY technique”. It’s not without flaws, it’s not a good technique. But it’s mine. I made a call into a customer service center, just this afternoon in fact. They put me on hold. Then that dreaded “hold” music started. So I grabbed my bass. As it turned out the tune was a cool loop of an A Major chord progression. So I went to town and jammed with the “hold music”. I was on hold for 35 minutes. So I soloed, played with arpeggios, figured out my own bass groove, changed it up, soloed some more. I explored all the relative minor scales etc. That was a fun practice.
DR- A lot of our readers are up-and-coming players. How long were you playing before you found a tone that actually made you feel like This is MY tone? What was that like?
JV- I’m still searching for that. It’s a progression. In the early 2000’s I began leaning towards a sound with grit and distortion much in the way Geddy Lee’s sound is. That just always appealed to me. But I’m still evolving with that part. I think first and foremost your sound is more bent towards your technique. The WAY you play as opposed to what your actual sound is like. It’s your style that will be recognized before your sound. THAT is your sound. Jeff Beck can pick up and play ANY guitar and it will sound like Jeff Beck. Eddie Van Halen created the ever sought after “brown sound”, but even he deviated from that in search of something else. But it was always Eddie. Even Geddy Lee has changed his sound ever so much with every record. But when you hear ANY of it, it’s Geddy. Without a doubt.
DR- Releasing two albums during a global pandemic isn’t ideal, clearly. Do Armored Saint and Fates Warning have plans for getting creative to play “live” for fans, similar to what bands like Behemoth, Devin Townsend, and Fleshgod Apocalypse have been doing by shooting livestream shows and selling tickets?
JV- Armored Saint did a live stream on October 10 and it was quite fun actually, even though we played to an empty room. We had a good time. We may consider doing another in the future if the world is slow to open up. I doubt Fates will do something like that though. We live in different parts of the world and it would be impossible to make that happen.
image credit- https://www.instagram.com/p/Bet0NNilkY5/
DR- How can fans support Armored Saint and Fates Warning during this time?
JV- Buy our records, buy the new merch, stream our music across your favorite services, stay in touch via social media.
DR- One last question- Was Grandpa Metal as fun to make as it sounds like? Because it’s great that metal can laugh at itself and have fun like that.
JV- For sure. We can’t take this all so seriously all the time. Brian Posehn is super creative and not to mention funny as hell so it’s always a blast working with him. The other guys also, collaborated with Brian and it made for a fun project. “New Music Sucks” is another great song!
DR- Thank you again for taking the time, and for the music. You're in so many awesome bands and music is helping a lot of us get through this hard time.
JV- Thank you, this was my pleasure and thanks for helping spread the word!
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A ton of thanks to Joey for taking the time and answering my questions is such detail. If you haven’t heard the new Armored Saint and Fates Warning albums yet get thee to Spotify and check them out because they are shining examples of their genres and the reason those bands have been around for as long as they have. If you have been checking them out throw your favorite song from the albums in the comments.
Doug Robertson is the editor of The Bass Blog, the blog component of The Bass Channel, your one stop YouTube channel for all things bass. His number one is a Mexican Geddy Lee Signature Jazz and his boomer is a BEAD tuned T-Bird. Find books by Doug here. If you’re interested in contributing to The Bass Blog please reach out to Doug at doug@thebasschannel.net. We would love to hear from you.
